"Clarke "Cavalier" on Anti-Terror Measures" says London MEP

Baroness Sarah Ludford MEP, the Liberal Democrats' European Justice Spokeswoman, has spoken out against the government's plans to use its Presidency of the EU to push controversial anti-terrorism plans which infringe privacy and human rights.

The measures, proposed by the British government to a meeting of EU justice and interior Ministers in Newcastle, include retaining information on everyone's emails, phone calls and internet use for at least 12 months, and possibly as long as 4 years

Speaking on the BBC World Service's "The World Today" programme, Sarah Ludford said:

"Ministers should concentrate firstly on implementing the laws which they have already signed up to. The European Arrest Warrant, for example, was years overdue in implementation. Secondly, they need to tackle the sort of jealousies and turf wars that stop cooperation across borders, make people reluctant to share information, and mean they don't support agencies like Europol which were already set up years ago. That would be much more effective than nibbling away at the human rights and civil liberties that have been the bedrock of European values for 50 years."

"Charles Clarke has been really quite cavalier about privacy and data protection, just as he is about the protection against torture laid down in the European Convention on Human Rights, when he talks about deporting extremists to countries with very dodgy human rights records. If he started by looking at the cultural reasons why agencies won't cooperate across borders, he would get a great deal further than if he tries to challenge all those protections in the European Convention on Human Rights which really make up the foundations of the European Union."

Notes

- The EU's Justice and Home Affairs Ministers are meeting in Newcastle on 8th and 9th September

- Please click here to listen to the full programme http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/programmes/worldtoday/news/story/2005/09/050908_runningorder_sept_8.shtml

• Please see below full transcript of interview.

The World Today: Do you recognise that there is a need to take urgent action?

Sarah Ludford: Well, absolutely. It is essential that there is cooperation in the EU to fight terrorism and criminality. I am pleased that Charles Clarke, I have to say unlike his predecessor, is very engaged in that process of cooperation, very hands on. But I think that the ministers should concentrate firstly on implementing the laws which they have already signed up to. The European Arrest Warrant, for example, was years overdue in implementation. Secondly they need to tackle the sort of jealousies and turf wars that stop cooperation across borders, make people reluctant to share information, and mean that people don't support agencies like Europol which were already set up years ago. That is my preference instead of nibbling away at the human rights and civil liberties that have been the bedrock of European values for 50 years.

The World Today: But is there a real problem in using phone tap records in criminal cases? It's not a problem in places like the Netherlands.

Sarah Ludford: No, the Liberal Democrats do want to use intercepted evidence in trials - it's the Labour government in Britain which is reluctant to do that. What Charles Clarke is pushing for is something different, which is to retain all our emails, phone, and internet records for at least 12 months, and even up to 4 years, without any rules on how that information could be used. He wants it agreed by ministers in a way which shuts out the European Parliament, and so has very little democratic input. It's a very intergovernmental way in which these law enforcement rules have been agreed so far in the EU. And I think he's been really quite cavalier about privacy and data protection, as he is about the protection against torture laid down in the European Convention on Human Rights, when he talks about deporting extremists to countries with very dodgy human rights records.

So, I think if he concentrated on the impediments to implementing what has already been agreed, for example by looking at the cultural reasons why agencies won't cooperate across borders, he would get a great deal further than if he tries to challenge all those protections in the European Convention on Human Rights which really make up the foundations of the European Union.

The World Today: Hasn't it become that much harder to play the civil liberties card when something like the London bombings are still so fresh in the mind?

Sarah Ludford: Well, on the contrary, really, the terrorists were trying to attack, and undermine, if you like, European civilisation. Charles Clarke did say yesterday that human rights are indivisible, and I want him to demonstrate that, and that's the way to show the terrorists that we will not be undermined.