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Rice disingenuous about extraordinary renditions
December 5, 2005 12:00 AM
By Baroness Sarah Ludford MEP in BBC Radio 4 - PM
By Baroness Sarah Ludford MEP in BBC Radio 4 - PM
PM: After several weeks during which allegations about the United States' alleged involvement in torture have gone unanswered, Condoleezza Rice has gone on the record. The claims were first reported in the Washington Post on November 2nd. The paper said the CIA had been using Soviet era camps in Eastern Europe to detain and interrogate terror suspects. As a result, the EU wrote to Ms Rice, the US Secretary of State, expressing misgivings about any jails and reports that planes carrying terror suspects have stopped off in the EU. The process of transporting suspects for questioning between countries is known as "extraordinary rendition." Over the weekend, a German magazine reported that hundreds of CIA flights had landed in Berlin, Frankfurt and elsewhere in Germany. It's also been alleged that some prisoners have been tortured. Ms Rice is on her way to Europe for the start of a week long tour. Before she left Washington she made a detailed statement insisting that the process had saved lives and prevented terror attacks on Europe as well as in America and other countries. She denied that any illegal activity had taken place.
Rice: "The United States does not permit, tolerate or condone torture under any circumstances. Moreover, in accordance with the policy of this administration, The United States has respected and will continue to respect the sovereignty of other countries. The United States does not transport and has not transported detainees from one country to another for the purpose of interrogation using torture."
PM: The Liberal Democrat MEP Baroness Sarah Ludford is a member of the European Parliament's Civil Liberties Committee. This is the first detailed explanation we have had in the light of these allegations, are you satisfied?
SL: No, not at all. I don't think it is an explanation I think it's a disingenuous load of weasel-words riddled with ambiguities. It fails to answer key questions and leaves us as far as ever from knowing who was on the flights, where they are now, whether they've been tortured. I think this is shaping up as a real struggle between parliamentarians and government on a European scale.
PM: Hang on, but wasn't she very clear that they haven't been tortured?
SL: She says "the United States does not permit, tolerate or condone torture." What she does not say is whether they turn a blind eye and wash their hands of knowing what happens to people when they are rendered, because she admits that they do this rendition, which itself is illegal. It's outside the legal controls of extradition. She also talks about how we all face "hard choices" - I think that is code for illegality and trampling on human rights, And of course she is hinting very strongly at the complicity of EU governments, or some of them saying "we're in this boat together so don't rock it by pressing the questions. And I think she appears to be saying that they were complicit, that they facilitated breaking the law, and I don't think I my colleagues in the European Parliament and the Strasbourg Council of Europe Assembly will be put off by these answers.
PM: Briefly, the Foreign Secretary was asked about this a few moments ago, and asked about the CIA prisons. He said "we have no evidence of them." What would you like to see him doing on this?
SL: Well I'm rather fed up with this formula of "we have no evidence" I don't have any evidence, but what we do know is that the logging of the flights is well documented. What we want to know is the answer to specific questions like who was on the flights, and indeed what the governments and intelligence agencies in the EU knew about these flights and how they facilitated them.
PM: Baroness Ludford, thank you very much.
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